Creature reset

Started 2 years ago by donjagra in forum TechTech: Generic.


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Creature reset


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  • Started 2 years ago by donjagra
  • 9 Pinsiders participating in this thread.
  • Latest reply from v8torino

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    donjagra

    Pinball master
    3,003,000 4
    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Anyone have an idea why I would get reset issues when I first turn the machine on and press both flippers. But then it stops happening once the machine has been on a few minutes? Should I be checking the connectors? I already replaced the bridge rectifier and filter cap.

    Do machines really need to "Warm Up?"


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Shouldn't need to warm up.

    Unplug the game and reseat transformer connectors, and where they put power to DMD driver board.

    Next up I'd suspect a flaky diode on a flipper coil.

    When you put in the new bridge rectifier and cap, did you jumper the two traces from the bridge to the cap ? Not a bad idea to do when the board is out, the traces don't always handle current good.
    LTG


    donjagra

    Pinball master
    3,003,000 4
    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    The jumpers are there, the board was professionally repaired, so I tend to think the problem lay elsewhere. I am thinking flipper coils or diodes next. Possibly the dmd controller board. But it is weird that as soon as it has been running for a few mins, the resets stop.


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Could it be a bad Capacitor?


    donjagra

    Pinball master
    3,003,000 4
    2 years, 5 months ago
    #
    fusion301 said:

    Could it be a bad Capacitor?

    It was replaced with the rectifier.


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Yeh but if a flipper coil diode was bad - I would think it would always be bad, that is strange but I'm no pro. If after it is "warmed up" if you turn it off and back on right away is the problem still there - or is it gone from the "warm up" This might help us eliminate a few possibilities.


    donjagra

    Pinball master
    3,003,000 4
    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    I think you are on to something, one of the flipper coils is the wrong size... I wonder.

    Only happens cold. If I shut it down after playing, I turn it back on and the issue isn't there. Only after the game has been off a while.

    Thanks fusion and ltg.


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #
    LTG said:

    flaky diode on a flipper coil

    This is most likely your problem also Try reseating the cable ribbons on the
    boards especially the ones on the fliptronics board.


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Well I guess the easy thing is to rebuild that flipper properly - let us know how it works.

    Mike so what do you think causes it when its not warm to reset, but when its been on for awhile to work fine. Is it a heat thing or something totally different.


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    There is a possibility that the thermistor is your pin is failing. With the game warm, there should be no more than 1VAC across the thermistor. When cold it may be up to 5VAC. It is an 8 amp 2.5 Ohm device and should not read above 3 Ohms when cold (power off) There also may be another problem that is causing resets and the thermistor is lowering the voltage just enough to trigger it when cold. The reset section in Pinwiki describes a methodical approach to solving these problems. This is the thermistor section from Pinwiki :

    Failed Thermistor

    Step 5: Examine the Thermistor

    The thermistor is (generally) a black disk, about the size of a dime. If your game has one (and not all WPC games do), it will be connected in series with incoming AC power. It is located inside the power box which is found just inside the coin door and to the right. Note that the power box may also contain a "varistor", or MOV, which is essentially a surge protector. The varistor will be wired in parallel with the AC power. The varistor is not a factor in game resets.

    The thermistor's job is to limit current inrush into the capacitors when the game is first powered on. This reduces stress on the bridge rectifiers or diodes in the game's power circuits (which is the primary cause of bridge rectifier failures). After a few seconds, the thermistor heats up and drops to a very low resistance. Failing thermistors pass less current and have to get hotter to work. This heating takes time, so the game will often reset in the first 30 minutes of operation, and then be fine aftwerwards. Obviously, a cold environment will make the symptoms worse, and a warm room may appear to cure the problem.

    Resetting while the game warms up is therefore a key indicator of a failing thermistor. Note also that DCS and WPC-95 A/V boards may reset independent of the MPU. If this is the case, you'll hear the characteristic same "bong" as when the game boots.

    ***Safety Warning*** Unplug the game AND turn the game off before conducting the following test.

    Sometimes, the thermistor may be visibly damaged. However, it may look good and still be bad. An easy test of the thermistor is to jumper across the legs of the thermistor with a heavy gauge wire. If the game resets no longer occur, replace the thermistor with the correctly rated part. The original Williams part number is 5016-12978-00. A replacement is available from Great Plains Electronics.


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    That sounds more logical then anything so far, learn something new everyday - I knew about the varistors but never had to change a thermistor - that also would make sense why he had to change his BR's also - hrmmmm its all starting to make sense.

    hopefully thats the issue


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #
    wallybgood said:

    Failed Thermistor

    Step 5: Examine the Thermistor

    The thermistor is (generally) a black disk, about the size of a dime. If your game has one (and not all WPC games do), it will be connected in series with incoming AC power. It is located inside the power box which is found just inside the coin door and to the right. Note that the power box may also contain a "varistor", or MOV, which is essentially a surge protector. The varistor will be wired in parallel with the AC power. The varistor is not a factor in game resets.

    The thermistor's job is to limit current inrush into the capacitors when the game is first powered on. This reduces stress on the bridge rectifiers or diodes in the game's power circuits (which is the primary cause of bridge rectifier failures). After a few seconds, the thermistor heats up and drops to a very low resistance. Failing thermistors pass less current and have to get hotter to work. This heating takes time, so the game will often reset in the first 30 minutes of operation, and then be fine aftwerwards. Obviously, a cold environment will make the symptoms worse, and a warm room may appear to cure the problem.

    Resetting while the game warms up is therefore a key indicator of a failing thermistor. Note also that DCS and WPC-95 A/V boards may reset independent of the MPU. If this is the case, you'll hear the characteristic same "bong" as when the game boots.

    ***Safety Warning*** Unplug the game AND turn the game off before conducting the following test.

    Sometimes, the thermistor may be visibly damaged. However, it may look good and still be bad. An easy test of the thermistor is to jumper across the legs of the thermistor with a heavy gauge wire. If the game resets no longer occur, replace the thermistor with the correctly rated part. The original Williams part number is 5016-12978-00. A replacement is available from Great Plains Electronics.

    Some good info and might be the problem Don is facing but honestly I have never
    heard of anyone ever replacing the thermistor due to resets,Is the game in the
    house or garage Don?My games are in the garage and it has been pretty cold at
    night so what i normally do is power up the games and let them warm up for about
    5-7 mins.Then i start playing never had a problem.


    donjagra

    Pinball master
    3,003,000 4
    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Wow Wally, thanks. That is some great information. My creature has had a lot of work done to it over the years and it looks like at some point the transformer was replaced. The weather has become colder, so that could have something to do with it. It is about 10 degrees F colder in the basement, and that might be enough to trigger it. I am still going to fix that coil though. It has been bugging me.

    I really miss Clay's guide being online.

    Kudos to pinwiki for picking up the slack.


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    So I have this exact same problem with my TOM. First game after turning it on, press both flippers (not just one) and the game resets. Sometimes the audio is off for the rest of the time the game is on. If I shutdown and restart the problem is always gone.

    I am watching this thread with extreme interest and can try stuff on my machine in case anyone has ideas and hopefully get a two for one deal on the fix!


    jimjam

    Senior pinhead
    493,900 2
    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    I had the same fault years ago tried everything, replaced caps bridges, anyway I got some info from Clay's site installing links on driver board to fix crap connection going through the board. easy to do and it fixed my fault resetting. I hope this helps


    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Some great advice so far. Have you looked at your connector at J101 yet? Mine was toasted so I replaced the connector with a Molex connector with Trifurcons and walla, no more resets. You can change the pins on the board too, but mine looked good so I left them alone for now.
    Good luck!


    donjagra

    Pinball master
    3,003,000 4
    2 years, 5 months ago
    #

    Wow, that is a lot of jumpers.

    I checked the thermistor, no dice.

    I am going to order a new molex connector for J101. It is loose, probably should have replaced that right from the beginning. I am going to replace the flipper coils too, Creature ships with an orange and a blue, but mine has a red and a brown paper (currently held together with electrical tape).


    donjagra

    Pinball master
    3,003,000 4
    2 years, 4 months ago
    #

    Update to finish off the thread:

    The breaker box that my machines are on still uses the old style circular fuses. The fuse blew not long after this thread was started and I replaced it. Have not had a reset issue since.


    2 years, 4 months ago
    #

    Thanks for the update donjagra,was following this along as I was having reset issues at the same time.Hope that fixes it for a long,long time.



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