(Topic ID: 9786)

Congo top gate is always open

By hassanchop

12 years ago


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  • 46 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by northvibe
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 12 years ago

I have a problem on my Congo machine.
The top gate (image 1), that stops the ball when you shoot through the left (image 2) doesnt stop the ball. it is always open.
it is suposed to be closed when lock is NOT lit. To guide the ball into the AMY lanes.

and it is funny because when i open the coin door, the gate closes. and when i close the coin door to play, the gate opens again and stays open at all times during the game.

as anyone had a problem like this?

1.jpg1.jpg 2.jpg2.jpg

#2 12 years ago

Sounds like the transistor driving this gate is stuck open. The gate is driven by a TIP122 transistor and these can sometimes go bad and cause a coil to remain energized. When you open the coin door, all high power is cut (for safety) and thus the gate closes. You'll probably see that the gate is even open when the game is in attract mode (with the coin door closed).

First, find out which transistor is driving that gate. The manual should have a table for this, it is a Q followed by a number. Find that transistor in the backbox on the big board.

You're gonna have to check that transistor with a DMM. Set your multimeter to diode testing (beep mode) and then ...

---
From pinrepair.com:
For the most part, the most common testing will be on "darlington" transistors (which means they are actually two transistors in one package) such as the TIP102, TIP122, TIP36 transistors. Also most testing is done "in circuit" (installed in the circuit board). For each of these have one lead of the DMM on the metal case (tab) of the transistor (which is usually the center leg of the transistor). Then the other lead of the DMM will test the outside two legs individually. A value of .4 to .6, or 1.0 to 1.2 should be seen, depending on the exact transistor, and which lead (red of black) is on the metal tab. The biggest indicator of a bad transistor would be a value less than .2 (probably a short). Look to the specific pinball repair guides for more exacting details of this. Also remember, a transistor can ocassionally test as "good", but in fact be bad.
---

You'll probably find it's shorted and you're gonna have to replace it. Don't stop there, but also check to see if the gate's coil is not burned. If it was stuck on for too long it may have melted inside and need replacing too.

Hope this helps!

#3 12 years ago

thank you robin
i will try to look into it

these things are still a little new to me so i will have to learn it all
what is a DMM?

#4 12 years ago

Haha, don't worry there is plenty of people here willing to help.

A DMM is a digital multi meter. You can buy one at an electronics store or online.

When you buy one, make sure it has a "diode test" setting, you'll need it plenty when doing pinball repair. In this photo it's the setting above the 10A setting. I think 99% of DMM's have this setting.

DMM-12-M.jpgDMM-12-M.jpg

#5 12 years ago

cool!!

so besides all my tools i need this one huh?
thnks i will try it

#6 12 years ago

Hehhhehe.

One month before I feel the same, like you now.
Ever since I bought a DMM, a soldering machine, and a lot small things.
If you read this thread, you can see my story. And you can laugh on it.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1984-bally-tilt-problem

But believe me, a great feeling, if you repair your own pinball...

#7 12 years ago

lol
what an adventure!

and yes, it is a great feeling when you repair it. i replaced the volcano popper, and had to unmount so many stuff to get to it. the volcano, 2 ramps, a bumper, some plastics and ramp rails and some more stuff i dont even know how it is called.
watching it work perfectly in the end was very satisfying

#8 12 years ago

i tried to find that transistor on the manual, but non of them says TIP122
am i looking in the right spot?
all i can find are the ones in red

sorry, i should buy a pin repair for dummies.. but i dont think there is one for sale

1.jpg1.jpg

#9 12 years ago

am i looking in the wrong spot?

#10 12 years ago

Sorry for my slow response.
Tip 102 = Tip 122 , They're interchangeable

#11 12 years ago

ok cool!
so i will have to check them Qs
ok thnks, i will try it

#12 12 years ago

You don't need to check them all - just the one associated with the gate.

Look at page 6 of the Operator's Handbook:
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/3780/Williams_1995_Congo_Operators_Handbook.pdf

From the photo that should be the right gate - so Q29.

#13 12 years ago

cool!
i checked the manual, it doesnt have very good quality, but i think is the one in red on the image.
i will try it.
thnks again.

q29.jpgq29.jpg

#14 12 years ago

That seems like the right one, let's measure it and see if it's stuck open!

#15 12 years ago

i will, but first i have to buy the dmm lol
as soon as i do the test i will post here

#16 12 years ago

Hey hassanchop it's pretty important you give this a try could save you a lot of wasted time. After reading this I realized that my gate was not working correctly either (it was opened all the time). The issue on mine at least turned out to be mechanical not electrical. Not sure this will fix your issue but it may so I would look into it before doing more complicated diagnostics.

There is a spring attached to a mini coil under the playfield the other end of the spring is attached to the gate mechanism. The problem was the spring where attached to the gate was moving all around preventing the gate from going down consistently. My easy solution to this problem was to use a tiny bit of duct tape to tape the end of the spring to the gate mechanism at the elbow (where the gate mech is bent up to prevent spring from falling off). This allowed the spring to be kept in a spot that would allow gravity to close it and the coil to open it when the appropriate time in the game.

I guess this shows to always start with the easy things first as we trouble shoot. Hope this info is of some use to you and others that own a Congo. If you need pics of what I am talking about let me know and I will do my best to get them posted as quick as I can.

#17 12 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Hey hassanchop it's pretty important you give this a try could save you a lot of wasted time. After reading this I realized that my gate was not working correctly either (it was opened all the time). The issue on mine at least turned out to be mechanical not electrical. Not sure this will fix your issue but it may so I would look into it before doing more complicated diagnostics.
There is a spring attached to a mini coil under the playfield the other end of the spring is attached to the gate mechanism. The problem was the spring where attached to the gate was moving all around preventing the gate from going down consistently. My easy solution to this problem was to use a tiny bit of duct tape to tape the end of the spring to the gate mechanism at the elbow (where the gate mech is bent up to prevent spring from falling off). This allowed the spring to be kept in a spot that would allow gravity to close it and the coil to open it when the appropriate time in the game.
I guess this shows to always start with the easy things first as we trouble shoot. Hope this info is of some use to you and others that own a Congo. If you need pics of what I am talking about let me know and I will do my best to get them posted as quick as I can.

i think your gate was open at all times.
mine closes when you open the coin door. witch tells us that the coil is always "on". so that must be electrical..
anyway i will look into that spring you said and try to see if there is something wrong.

thnks!

#18 12 years ago

Had the same problem with my transporter the rescue. Replacing the transistor fixed the problem.

#19 12 years ago

ok i got the DMM and located the transistor
now how do i do it? can you guys explain to a newby electrician here?
here are the pics of what i got:

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#20 12 years ago

Put your meter dial on the position to the right of 6 o'clock....The little speaker icon.

Put red lead in the right hole of your meter. Black lead in the center.

With power OFF the machine, touch your red lead on the top of the transistor where the little hole is. Touch your black lead on GND strap in the backbox or find the GND test point on your board. If the meter beeps or shows 0, bad transistor. If the meter doesn't beep and shows something like O.L. then probably good.

#21 12 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Put your meter dial on the position to the right of 6 o'clock....The little speaker icon.

Put red lead n the right hole of your meter. Black lead in the center.

With power OFF the machine, touch your red lead on the top of the transistor where the little hole is. Touch your black lead on GND strap in the backbox or find the GND test point on your board. If the meter beeps or shows 0, bad transistor. If the meter doesn't beep and shows something like O.L. then probably good.

Haha! Testing transistors should be a sticky in the blue section,Don't you think it should be Robert?

#22 12 years ago

lol...agreed.

#23 12 years ago

thnks Robert!
is this the GND point?

damn i am so newbie at this

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#24 12 years ago

That will work fine, if it's on the same board as the transistor in question. All the boards should have the same ground and it should NOT matter, but I always like to leave chance out of the equation (like a broken ground between boards).

#25 12 years ago

i tried it. with the dmm on the "little speaker icon" position, it shows 1 at all times.
then i did as you said and most of the transistors showed a number between 1200 and 1900.
and on some ones nothing happened, the number remained 1.
on the bigger transistors the dmm did a continuous beep.

if my measurements are right, then i have a bunch of screwed transistors!!

did a pic to show

5.jpg5.jpg

#26 12 years ago

Those 'bigger' transistors are PNP Tip36....Can't test those like that. If nothing happened on Q29 then that transistor is probably ok.

#27 12 years ago

Odd it would test differently than the rest in that quad....The next step is to test the pre-driver transistor. It might be locked on, turning the larger Q29 transistor on. Could also be why you read differently on that one.

#28 12 years ago

Here's a guide from Clay's pin repair on further testing Q29 (what we did was a quick test). Note, this time turn your meter dial to DIODE...That's the position immediately left of 6 oclock:

TIP102: Put the black lead of the DMM on the metal tab of the transistor. Put the red lead of the DMM on each of the two outside legs of the transistor one at a time. A reading of .4 to .6 volts should be seen. Put the red lead on the center transistor leg (collector), and a zero reading should be seen. Any other value, and the transistor is bad and will need to be replaced.

If that passes the full test, follow the trace up to the smaller transistor (no metal tab) for Q29 and test it:

2N5401, MPSD52, 2N4403 (pre-drivers): Put the black lead of the DMM on the center leg of the transistor (note this transistor doesn't have a metal tab). Put the red lead of the DMM on each of the two outside legs of the transistor one at a time. A reading of .4 to .6 volts should be seen. Any other value, and the transistor is bad and will need to be replaced.

#29 12 years ago

If the transistor is a Tip102 or Tip122 and you don't get a beep when measuring like RobertMee said then the transistor is not bad. That would be pretty strange as from what you told us it almost seems 99% clear that the Q29 transistor is stuck open.

I think the above test does not always work. Could you try measuring it slightly different? Set your DMM to the diode/continuous/beep mode and try the following: put the black lead on the metal tab of the transistor and put the red lead on the left leg (you should get between .4 and .6) and then on the right leg (again, you should see a value between 0.4 and 0.6). If you get a beep on either of the two legs, the transistor needs replacing.

#30 12 years ago

Hehe seems Robert was a bit faster than me with posting

#31 12 years ago

Is there an echo in here

#32 12 years ago

It would help to also know what type of meter the OP is using.

#33 12 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

It would help to also know what type of meter the OP is using.

He posted pictures of it about 10 or so posts up....they didn't show up in the window, but you can click on the links.

#34 12 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

He posted pictures of it about 10 or so posts up....they didn't show up in the window, but you can click on the links.

It's asking to be downloaded.

#35 12 years ago

Yeah, download it and open it in your favorite picture viewer....I used the picture to tell him where to set the dial on the meter.

#36 12 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

.I used the picture to tell him where to set the dial on the meter

Good Deal

#37 12 years ago

thnks guys for trying to help a newbie here

ok, tonight i will do those next tests and let you know what happened

"It would help to also know what type of meter the OP is using."
what is a OP? ... :/

p.s. some pics i upload here dont show. i dont know why..

#38 12 years ago
Quoted from hassanchop:

p.s. some pics i upload here dont show. i dont know why..

You must have saved your post twice or something like a double post, I have corrected it and the images of your DMM are now showing.

#39 12 years ago
Quoted from hassanchop:

i think your gate was open at all times.

Sorry title of this post indicated yours was 'always open' as well so I thought it may be a similar issue. I should have read your comments more thoroughly. Either way, it is very easy to check it out by pulling up the playfield and definitely the first thing I would do. Check the coil to make sure nothing is lose (wire or connection) and test it out with the playfield up to make sure it is functioning okay mechanically. Adjusting the spring fixed my problem so it works 100% now. I was hoping yours may be that simple as well.

Quoted from hassanchop:

mine closes when you open the coin door. witch tells us that the coil is always "on".

When the coil is "on" or engaged it opens the gate when it is off via gravity the gate closes that is why it closes with the door is opened (due to coil going inactive). I would still inspect the spring to ensure it is allowing the gate to open and shut as it should. Also, run a test in the menu to see if the coil engages and disengages. Sounds like you got a lot of help here so you will get down to the issue sooner or later. Good luck!

Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Got mixed up here sorry.

#40 12 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

hassanchop said:i think your gate was open at all times.

Sorry title of this post indicated yours was 'always open' as well so I thought it may be a similar issue. I should have read your comments more thoroughly. Either way, it is very easy to check it out by pulling up the playfield and definitely the first thing I would do. Check the coil to make sure nothing is lose (wire or connection) and test it out with the playfield up to make sure it is functioning okay mechanically. Adjusting the spring fixed my problem so it works 100% now. I was hoping yours may be that simple as well.
hassanchop said:mine closes when you open the coin door. witch tells us that the coil is always "on".

Well something is wrong here because this is not how the gate is designed to function. When the coil is "on" or engaged it opens the gate when it is off via gravity the gate closes. I know because examined the coil with the playfield up and when it activates it pulls on the gate to open it and when the coil is off the gate closes. It may be the connections are reversed or something I'm not sure. Sounds like you got a lot of help here so you will get down to the issue sooner or later. Good luck!

i did checked the wires and and everything at the coil seems right.
if the connections where reversed, the gate should close when you are on "lock is lit" mode. but no, it is always open.

i am gonna try the next tests now.
even if the transistor is damaged, just by looking at it i know i cant change something like that hahahahahaha looks like it needs soldering. GULP!!!

#41 12 years ago

ok done.

the Q29 showed .684 on the top leg, .544 on the bottom leg and .0 on the middle one.
this means i am screwed, right?

about the 2N5401, MPSD52, 2N4403. i dont know witch one is to test. should i test all of them?
most of them are so tinny that i cant fit the leads of the dmm..
how do you guys do it?

#42 12 years ago

So, Q29 is okay.

To find the small one to test, follow the center leg trace of the big one up...it will go to one of the outside legs of the small one (it might traverse through a resistor first). If you have trouble getting your leads on the small one's legs, get a paper clip and wrap it around your meter lead. Then touch the paper clip to the transistor legs.

2 weeks later
#43 12 years ago

ok i tested the small one. it showed 0.859 on the top leg and 0.757 on the bottom one.
that's it.... i am screwed?

i did saw a damaged fuse though. the GI #2 fuse. well, it is for the lights on the back of the machine, around the gate. maybe it has something to do with it maybe not. it is too late to test the machine... or my neighbours will kill me but i will test it tomorrow.

#44 12 years ago

ok so the gate is still not working. nothing to do with the fuse. (how newbie i am lol)

all the gate transistors seem fine. so what you recommend i do next?
calling a maintenance pro and pay the fee?

#45 12 years ago

Have you done a switch test yet? There may be a stuck switch that could be causing this. Just a guess as I have never owned a Congo. Besides, it couldn't hurt as it is just in the tests menu.

1 year later
#46 10 years ago

Any updates hassanchop? I'm in the process of troubleshooting the SAME thing but on a different game :/

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