Need Help! Restoring a 73 Chicago Coin Hee-Haw EM Pinball. Had it 90% working, and was testing the multi-player. Came back the next day, and turned the machine on. I hear the machine cycling trying to zero everything out. All score reels reset back to 0 like they should, but machine never resets. Machines continues to attempt reset although score reels are at 0. Can hear all the relays clicking like they should.

Any ideas to why it is not detecting that everything is zero'd out?

Any help would be appreciated....I'm stuck, and can't figure this out.

Way2wyrd...Great to know someone who knows something about ccm that is in state!...
I will post some pics tonight, but here is what I know (Answering a few of your questions):

- I had advanced all score reels so that none were on Zero. All reset back to Zero as they should.

- I will check the ball trough tonight... (obvious item now...why did i not look at that!)

- Player unit (PCU) appears to reset back to its orginal location.

- Ball unit....Are we talking about the ball counter or something else? Ball counter stays incremented....

What pictures might be helpfull?

Update...
So i have tried the following:
- ball trough - no luck
- I manually reset the credit counter back to 0 - no luck
- Ball count does not show on the back glass..... seems to be reset though

When powering on the score motor starts to move.... and the relays in the back box begin to fire. Relays for score reels. top 2 middle stacks relays in pic 0341. all score reels reset to zero. in the back box, I also see that the PCU (Player control unit..pic 340) reset. reel in pic 339 also resets (although I'm not sure what it is).

I think it get stuck on literally the first sequence of things...... At this point I'm guessing it is something in the back box, but I have no clue...... I have cleaned most of the score reels. I tested most this evening for continuity, and they looked good.

I have attached a few pics and a vid on photo bucket. You can access with the link below. I shot in a hurry with the iPhone tonight, so the quality is crap. will get some more pics out here shortly.

http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa390/brianzitterkopf/

Any ideas..or something i can narrow down?

Game was really dirty with mutiple issues when i bought it. At some point in its life, someone had done previous simple repairs that were quite poor. I'm still in the process of undoing their work (ex: instead of un-soldering connections to a score reel- they cut them; and then used butt connectors to rejoin).
This is my first venture into a pinball retore...I have spent countless hours cleaning, and replacing parts. Ironically, I get something working; only then to run into a whole new problem...

Couple of quick answers to the inquiries above:

- The two relay banks (Top middle) are firing...they are player 1,3 and 2,4 reset.
- I had advanced all score reels. All now reset back to zero without issue during power on (More on this below, I have a few questions)
-Comment on pic 5...Will check the soldered connections again, and make sure there is not bridging.
- As for Carbon trace on the PCU (pic 5). I recent completely rebuilt this unit. Cleaning it and repairing a broken trace on the bakelite. This is the Player control unit, which allows multiplayer. Previous to my repair the pinball would not allow mulitplayers (up to 4 on this unit). I checked continuity between the contacts and soldered connections previously, and all were making good contact.

I have been repairing score reels as i have seen problems. At a minimum I have checked each to confirm they were spinning freely, and that they were making good contact (conti..test)

I've had to do some reworking on about 4 score reels. I relocated the 10 point player 1 score reel. IT was heavily worn with a broken track on the bakelite. Repaired the trace, and moved it to Player 4 where it is less likely to be used. 2 other score reels would stick. Completely disassembled, cleaned, and re-lubed both. One reel now spins freely. The other has some drag (player 3-10 point)....i cut the spring to compensate, and it now increments; just not as freely as the others. This being said, it seems to work, and resets to zero without an issue.

This whole issue started once i got the PCU working, and went into multi-player. Turned the machine off and then on; and got this. It obviously not seeing something reset to zero. As i understand the zero out-startup goes through mutiple steps. When i power the unit back on- flippers, bumpers, and coin credit dont work. Score unit is running, along with the reset of all the score reels, PCU, and credit counter in the back box.

I will try to take some better pics and post some additonal vids next week...

P.S. One other oddity i noticed.. The orginal player 1 10 point score reel had a diode across the coil contacts. Theres not another diode in the whole damn game. Per my research, you would use a diode if you placed a DC coil in an AC EM game. As it was, this was an original A/C Coil. I removed the diode (it was busted), and assumed it was due to the last guy not know what he was doing. Was this a correct assumption? Any reason to have it there? It defienetly looked to be added later....

Appreciate everyones help......

The saga continues.....

Turned the unit on tonight, and boom it worked. Turned off, and back on; and back to the same problem.

Moved a few score reels to check connections...powered back up; and its now mostly working! WTF!
I figure i got something with a transient connection. Since it is at least kind of working for player 1, I did not attempt multi-player, but will do so later.

http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa390/brianzitterkopf/

I've posted a new video..1911. IT shows it working, plus some close-ups in the back box. This brings me to a few questions:
- There is a 00-90 unit. I believe this is a match unit. But it never activates. Any idea why? Is there a jumper somewhere to enable/disable this feature? Way2wyrd does your CC 74 have this feature?
- I zoom in on two relay banks for reseting the score reels..you will notice that player 2-4 really bank has the paper retainer/guide broken... Just broke this evening (Was not the problem prior)... Super glue doesn't seem to fix.. Any ideas on how to fabricate a replacement?

2nd video shows a few days back of me pulling apart a score reel..video 5715..,see the white plastic hub in the middle? it turns like crap.. Pulled it out relubed..turns a little better but still not as free as I would like. it feels like it is just tight... can't find a good way to remove enough material to spin free..

Ok..So since it kinda works..whole new set of questions...
-00-90 unit....If anyone has a clue why it does nothing...let me know...
-One of my flippers drag against the play field. Tried adjusting, but it just to close against the play filed. It works, but this can't be right.. Am i missing a washer or something?

Thanks in advance.....

I'm slowly making progress. Having a CC machine seems to make the process more difficult.

Any info on the how 00-90 functions would be huge..

When i get brave again, i'm going to try to get this thing in multi-player again. Will see what the outcomes of that is....

My slightly slugish score reel is a bit of a problem. As stated i cleanded it completely (video x5715), the actual plastic axel (round white object in the middle) fits into a whole in the metal frame. Even after lube, is still doesnt spin as freely as the others. With the way it is designed, I cant find a good way to remove material that appears to be impacting its ability to spin freely. It does spin, and i have overcome some resistance by increasing spring tension. If anyone has dealt with this and has ideas, it would be appreciated.

We will see if the machine works tonight....

i know the area your speaking of in the back box-upper left. I saw the area for setting the high score. Nothing is marked in regards to 00-90 unit. I notice it does even attempt to move or reset, so i figure this might be the jumpers you mentioned in the top of the box. Will do some more digging. I bought the schematics and manual from PBR, but cant find the manual after we moved last year. Will do some more digging....

-Yeah, that was with the new bushings from PBR ...Plus i had to replace the flippers. The orginals had broken in places... Should i put a washer under the flipper? Additonally, the flippers work themselves loose, and then fall down..... I'm assuming the PBR ones arent quite just right. Trying to find a way so they stay without working themselves loose.

I completely removed the spring/actuator/finger unit...The only thing was the center plastic hub into the metal and bakelite. It appears that it must have just too much material.. It's bizarre.

As for do i need Score reel parts...Yes... The original 1st player 10 point score was fried. 1 of the traces was completely burned off in 1 part, and it even cooked the bakelite. The past owner attempted a repair with wire, but it broke. I went back with a piece of copper braid. Luckily, its not in the areas of the swipe arms. The repair works, but while TS'ing my recent problem i pulled off the score arm. I noticed there were pin prick holes in the copper trace in some areas that were in contact with the whipper arms. I sanded the pin-pricks down, but they might be causing problems. Plus i have the sluggish score reel mentioned below.

I just clicked the ebay link you provided, and bought the 2 reels that were up for sale. I'm hoping that I can salvage a few parts. If your willing to sale a score reel (or at least the bakelite board and hub), please let me know what you might want for it.... I would be happy to purchase.

My thanks to you and the moderator for assisting me with this. Its great to have a place to bounce problems around....

Greetings from India... Wont have many questions this week since I'm seperate from my machine.

- Thats not pinball related... Forgot about that on my workbench. That is a motor that turns the bi-level doors on my Expedition. Damn thing has plastic gears, and after 8 years finally stripped. Sorry about that.

As for the flippers... I tightened the crapola out of them. They keep working loose. I'll try a longer hex wrench so that I can get more leverage while tightening. As for the dragging flipper, i'm going to try a washer. There is just too much play in the flipper up and down.

Will let you know how it goes, and what else I find broken in the process.

New problem..I noticed this on the 2nd and 4 player score reset relay. The fiber board broke about in the middle. The included pics show the broken one; and the good one from Player 1&3.

I have tired super gluing (And re-enforcing), but due to the material it just breaks again. How do i find or make a replacement? I've checked Macro and PBR; and they don't appear to have anything on their sites for sale. Any ideas?

IMG_0372.jpg IMG_0373.jpg

Was a good trip, but very glad to be home.

I was thinking just that, but could not figure out what material to use.... Thats a great idea.

So i called PBR today. As usual, I got the lecture on how bad Chicago Coin machines are (poorly built and boring----this i knew already, my first pin restore; and wanted to learn rather cheaply. Got mine for $125.00). You have to give them this, they know their stuff and speak their mind. Long story short, he might have the relay with the slotted piece I needed. (If not, I'm off to buy some Lexan.....)
I ordered a bunch of coils and other odd-n-ends....

Interesting enough on this one. I found where to turn it off an on. It's not in the back box, but in the very front by the coin door. The options are "In" or "Out". Neither option appears to work. I checked the coil with my DVM; and it appears fine. I need to track back another level and find the relay that drives it. I've still got some other things to figure out, and it doesn't impact game play. So it can wait until the rest is done.

At this point, as long as you play under player1 the machine works 99%. I've got a couple coils that hum, a flipper that needs a new coil and EOS; and a chime that fails to work well due to missing the nylon stirker.

BTW...I fixed my flipper drag that i mentioned in a previous post. Sanded down the screw holes on the back of the playfiled. Previous owner had used other screws, and the wood around the whole had risen a bit (like a mini-volcano.. ). This caused the flipper to be mis-aligned and stike the playfiled on one side.

I will post some pictures tonight and update my profile.

Will post again when I find next problem.

A few pics as promised. The site won't let me search or add this machine to my personal collection. Guess since this is SS site, no EM machines listed. Sniff...

IMG_4361.jpg IMG_4354.jpg IMG_4372.jpg IMG_4362.jpg IMG_4370.jpg

The pictures online did not due them justice. In person they looked like they came off the titanic. Rusted and corroded. Score reels have pin hole marks. Going to attempt to clean this weekend; and see if i can salvage enough to rebuild one of my score reels. The problem is that my score reels look better than the ones i got. Will let you know.... Thx.

The saga continues............but i'm down to only 3 problems; and only one i'm not sure how to fix.

Still have one score reel that is sluggish. From the ones i bought, will see if i can piece a good one together. The ones off ebay were in horrible shape.. Hoping I can salvage something.

Multiplayer works, but when it comes time to go back to player 1..it doesn't always happen. It sticks on the previous player and keeps scoring; and then suddenly switches back.
- I got a theory on this one... Think the spring on the player control unit doesnt have enough tension. I'm hoping that I can tighten the spring and resolve it.....

The Match Unit problem has me stumped. I found the selector to turn it on and off. Looking in the back box I see the 00-90 unit incrementing. But no lights at end of game for a match. Anyone have any ideas? Any idea how this works. There are lights for 10,20,30, and so on..... But they never light up.... The Match unit looks good, and the contacts are clean. From the schematics, I cant see anything else that would prevent this from working.

Once i get this one done...will be looking for a SS machine.

Ok..now im really stuck. Way2Wyrd need some help on this one.

Machine resets great...Now suddenly when the first 10 points is scored (hitting a bumper) the 10-90 relay in the back box stays energized and wont release. Additonally, it doesn't register 10 points on the score reel. It does this for all players (1,2,3,4)

While Troubleshooting, I found the following:

- The 1st player score reel (10 points) has a 3 blade leaf switch (its the only one). If i disconnect the 3rd blade in the switch, the relay releases, but then the relay never gets energized nor registers points. Game will play, but only 100, 1000 scoring...

- in the 10-90 realy..there are 4 switches (8 blades). RELAY- 1 2 3 4.
The problem seems to be related to switch 1. 1 and/or 3 appear to register points.

Anyone seen this problem before? I have been litterally pulling the machine apart.
Anyone have a picture of the 3 bladed swith that belongs to player 1 score reel (10 points)

Any ideas?

Way2wyrd, always appreciate your help....

Starting with score reel.. Mine looks the same. In question, I cant tell from the pic. There is techincally 3 contacts in that config. 1/2/3. 1/2 are closed by default. When i manually pull the plunger 2/3 close and 1 is open.

Question1... Are 3 wires coming off the top of this leaf switch..Each independent? I cant tell from the picture. Wandering if any are jumped together or not (mine are not)

- Doesn't move at all (10 point plunger). All the score reels are reset to zero; and all look good.

- Now the match unit doesnt move at all...Enabiling or disabling the match unit has zero impact.
Normally the match unit would increment every 10 points.

- I'm trying to work throught that now. Used to reading wiring schematics, but this one is extremely hard to follow. It looks to be connected all over the place. I'm going to try again tonight to see if I can trace back..

Again, my big interest is do you have 3 wires into the leaf switch on the score reel. I'm wandering if maybe 2 of the connections are jumpered or not.....

Thanks again for the help.. I'm so close, and then took 3 steps back.

FW to Austin..Thats a nasty commute. Love Austin, but finding and keeping a good $$ job is tough. I've tire several times to move there, but no luck finding a good IT job.

So back to the matter at hand..

I know this....the 10-90 realy stays energized and wont let go (until i shut off) once a 10 point target is hit. Its clear that at least 2 of the leaf switches on the 10-90 relay should operate the 10 point score reel (somewhere down the line).
It does appear that the coil to the score reel does not get power. This happen for all 4 players.
I do note that the 10 point chime does ring

I'm thinking i've got a short somewhere... But where I can't figure. The score reels look golden; and were working previously.

This is why i would like to see your switch on player 1 score reel. Wandering if something is supposed to jumpered by chance at the top of the leaf switch connectors.

Appreciate the help... I swear this machine is toying with me. I get it working almost perfectly (Except match), and then this crap.... It figures...

So I've checked again every EOS switch on the 10point score reels.all are closed; and pass a continuity test. Every 10-point on the play field is open. I looked at any relays and etc in the main box. Everything there again looks good. I'm about 95% certain it is in the back box, but where?

I'm reading the schematics, but due to the nature of its use through the entire game, it is almost impossible to follow.

I'm about to grab a bat and fix the problem the old fashion way....

This thing is now just pissing me off. I'll explain at the base. Let me first answer your questions first:

if you dont score on the field and instead manually activate the 10 pt relay what happens? Any score or does it stick closed?

- Relay fires and stay energized. Chime rings. The match and score do not trigger. Score reel does not move. Relay does not release until I shut off the machine.

Maybe the relay is just not adjusted correctly.

- its correct, its the fact that it stays energized and does not release...and the fact that the 10 point does not score. if you look at the relay and switch, it looks like this:
1.JPG

Let me know if i have this right.... but reading left to right.. Switch 1 and 4 work. The score reel switch does not....

___________________________________________________________________________
Now for the Gremlins. Last night I was showing off my machine. Opened up the back box to show the contents to a friend. Restarted the game, and it now works again. I'm now of the opionion that I have a wire that must be broken inside its jacket. I'm guessing the occasinal bump allows it to make contact. At this point finding which wire in the chain is going to be pain staking.... I'm looking at the diagrams, but for 10 points its near impossible to track.

I've checked all contacts on the score reel along with ensuring the EOS works. Checked all with my DVM.. It has to be some transient connecting wire.

I still would like to see the pic of your EOS switch on Score reel for player 1. I want to check how its wired (and if theres a metal jumper).

1 other question.. How does match work on your CCM? On the backboard does a light illumiate for the correct 00-90 score? Does it continue to light or change throughout the game; or only illuminate at the end?

Heres why i ask... Last night i could see the match unit (00-90) incrementing correctly, but no lights. I went to check the bulbs and every single one related to match (00,10,20,etc) was burned out (figures, i swear i had replaced them previously). Replaced the bulbs.. Started a game... 00 flickered and then went out. Never saw anything else illuminate...

So how does this work..? Does it continue to light numbers while it changes during the game (as it increments); or does it only light the match number at the very end of the game?

That match units circuit/contact board is clean. I can confirm the wiper arms are making good contact.

Understanding the behavior of how your match works might assist in my efforts.

Again, appreciate all the support.

dude thats awesome... should have gotten the pic.

I'm telling you this thing hates me..... Everytime i tell my kid it works... Poof!

Thats very helpfull (Related to the Match Issue). Mine doesn't do any of that. I'm certain match is activated, and can watch the 00-90 unit increment on every 10 point scored.

I'm suspecting that the bulbs I just replaced on the 00-90 got burned up immediately (they did flicker for just a few). Now they do nothing. Will dig into it tonight (with Beer in hand).

Do you know the dependecy list for the match unit? Obviously its connected to the 00-90 relay switch bank. I'm assuming that is also connected to the end of game switch in the main box. I the upper light bank connected directly to the the 00-90 unit? (I would assume so...).

On the other problem (which of course has now gone away for now)

- Will take a gander at that this evening.

Perfect. Very helpful. Thanks again for taking the time to do that.
I started working on the machine earlier today. Pulled the oo-90 unit. Working on it now..
Will provide an update once completed.

A pic is worth 10,000 words...

IMG_0401.jpg IMG_0400.jpg

So i found the match problem. I had never previously pulled the 00-90 unit, since it was moving; and the contacts always looked good and checked out. While pulling the unit, I pulled off the metal arms.

What i could not have seen until i pulled the arms, that there was melted solder splash that had landed on top of it; and was resting against all the sandwiched plates. This explains why all the 00-90 lights kept burning out. (the past owner had tried to repair some 20 years ago)

Way2wrd, explaining how your 00-90 unit worked was a huge help. Along with the pics.

When i first started with the machine it had issues a mile long. It now works 100%.

Many thanks for walking with me on this restore........

Time to find another machine to work on.

pic of the pulled 00-90 unit

IMG_0394.jpg

Seriously appreciated the help.... If you are ever in H-town let me know. I owe you a few beers.

Now I need another project pin.....