Really? How? I hadn't heard that before.

yes it can be.... its a common scam most find out the hard way.

pays via pp with cca, then calls credit card co says he never authorized charge, they force pp hand to reverse after item is on the way to scammer.

My buddy sold his truck for 45,000CAN, and the guy gave him a certified cheque. Weeks later the bank actually called the cops on my friend, cause the cheque was a fake. The buyer was LONG gone....

What he said.

Holy crap!

So he wound up with no cash, no truck, nothing?

I'm not sure what happened in the end. I think the cops may have tracked the guy down. But it was a giant mess for him. I think he was out the money, unless they could find the guy...

i use business checks now with Pinsiders who know me. But on the other hand, if it is someone I know on here I would also pay anyway they wanted. Trust is the issue. If we trust each other then who cares. I am not screwing you over. There are some guys on here that I would just take their word.

If I don't already have a solid relationship with the person, it's a cash deal, no matter what.

If I have a degree of trust with the person (i.e. a trusted pinsider, previous pin deal, friend of a friend, etc), Paypal Transfer is probably ok.

I'm not going to take a check unless they are personal friends.

I've had several deals fall through where people weren't comfortable hauling that much cash around. Maybe my loss, but oh well.

-Wes

Can you take a cashier's check to your bank and have them call the bank that the cashier's check was drawn to verify it's legit?

I have someone wanting to pay me for a pin with a cashier's check, and he says he's fine waiting until the 'check clears'. I've not taken a Cashier's Check before, just want to make sure I'm careful.

thank you, Michael

Since the buyer's OK with waiting, make him wait! From all of the horror stories about forgeries it sounds like asking the bank to verify a check on the spot (or trusting them if they say it looks legit) is still risky.

I just paid for my first pin with a personal check, and accepted that I'd have to wait a week or two for it to clear. Seemed fair enough to me.

If I'm selling I'll take a down payment through paypal. The balance is cash as that is king.
If I'm buying its always cash.

once it clears the funds are yours and the bank can confirm usually that the check has cleared 100 percent.

typically this takes a week or so and my bank will notify you once the transfer is 100 percent.

do NOT do anything until the funds clear. if the person is legitimate they should have no issue with this, as has been my experience with buyers.

+1

First off, Paypal non-gift makes it FAR too easy for a buyer to file a dispute and win.

Secondly, paypal fees are so exorbitant I'd say it's unethical.

this is another reason you never buy anything you can't pick up in person. there are about 100 reasons why you should do business this way anyway.

As a seller, I simply will not ship a pin. Sure, it limits my potential buyers, but it's just not worth the potential headaches.

Be glad that wasn't my policy... LMAO

I've used bank wire transfer and had another Pinsider who was local to the seller actually go inspect the pin for me. It was VERY kind of the Pinsider and extremely helpful to put my mind at ease.

Yes. I also prefer bank checks. Since large banks are often nation wide, it's also convenient to cash a bank check with the bank that generated the check. If I send you a BofA cashiers check, chances are you can cash it locally even if you don't bank with BofA. Once you have the cash, it's effectively cleared.

I'm no expert on this topic, but a wire transfer is generated from bank routing/account numbers (which are printed on your personal checks). So…I don't see any difference between a wire transfer and writing a personal check.

On the issue of trust…this is one of the huge benefits of a community like Pinside. Dealing with other Pinsiders with a history, reputation, and referrals should lower anxiety about remote transactions. I've done many successful remote transactions. Never had an issue with fraud.

Good luck!

I usually try to deal in only cash but I also research the person I am buying from. See how many post he has on pin side and see if he is reputable. If a guy has multiple post and sees to be repeated by the pin side community then you should be fine.

I still stand by my PayPal remark. It's safe for the buyer AND seller. I've had disputes as a party on both sides and PayPal ruled fairly in all cases. As a seller, if you document everything, take tons of pictures, pay the proper fees, tracking, etc., you'll be fine. It's why if I'm shipping anything of decent value, I'll do signature confirmation in addition to delivery confirmation. I would imagine shipping something freight would operate the same.

Like I said earlier glad we have secure e-transfers in Canada. The banks are a secure way to transfer cash into your account.

In the time this thread has been up I have agreed on a sale and accepted a wire transfer. It's no harder than getting a check and goes just as fast. My pin will ship soon. Everyone has different opinions on why they would or wound not accept a certain type of transaction. Trust your gut and check with your financial institution if your worried about fraud.

Best Avatar!!

3% is not uncommon in Credit Card fees to businesses. To call it exorbitant or unethical is just happy ignorance of what businesses are normally eating for the perk of letting you pay via credit. For sellers, Paypal is basically competing with Credit Card merchants... and their rates reflect that. In turn, sellers can accept payments from credit cards or other funding from buyers at no cost to the buyers. The delta in 'other funding' is margin that helps fund paypal's operation. For 'gifts' Paypay is basically just passing the normal Credit Card fees onto the parties involved as a one-time deal.

If Paypal were only bank to bank transfers.. and everyone had to fund via bank accounts... you should expect fees to be lower. But they are really more like a credit card merchant, and their fees are in the ballpark for that.

No way. Someone paypal gifts you, you think you're safe, you send the pin. The buyer then goes to their credit card company and disputes the charge. How, in any way, is that safe for the seller?

You'll be fine if you want to go to court. You might even have to sue the person in their state, who wants to deal with an out of state law suit and all that BS when you could have just taken cash?

On Pinside, I'm not very worried about flat out fraud. If I send someone money, it's pretty obvious that you're going to get a game. The issue is, with some of these FS threads, you can catch sellers overstating the condition of their game, stretching the truth etc.

As the buyer, you need to ask very good questions, question everything. I'd be more worried about paying $5K for a game and getting a game worth $4,200. Ask the right questions, deal with the right sellers and you should get the game you paid for.

As a seller, same deal. I lay out the terms of the sale I'm comfortable with and I only want to sell to people who are comfortable buying. I've called off more than one sale just by sensing apprehension from the other end. I want people who are sure and who will be happy. The last thing I want is to sell to someone who might not be happy with the game or the transaction.

No its not 'effectively cleared'. You are counting only on the belief that because you have the cash in hand.. the bank can't take it away from you. But you would have provided ID when you cashed the check, and if you are a customer they have other links/hooks in you too. You don't 'disappear' and if there is significant amounts involved, the bank isn't going to just forget about it.

To the end-user and how its funded.. very little. To the bank to bank world.. its processed and cleared differently. Net result to you typically is time...

I just sold a game to another guy on here and he sent me Postal Money orders. Took them to the bank and of course asked, "Do I need to be worried about these?" She said absolutely not.... They are bought and paid for.

unless they are fake...

PayPal gift users don't always use credit cards, and even if they do, try calling your credit card company and asking them about disputing a charge in which you, the buyer, initiated and marked it as a fee-free gift. I don't know about your credit card company, but mine won't cover purposefully going around the rules. When I sent money via PayPal, I have two options... "I'm paying for goods or services" or "I'm sending money to family or friends". In my mind, if I'm actually purchasing a good (pinball, tickets, whatever...), I fall into the first category.

I keep reading "accaptable" out loud and it's starting to sound like Gollum

If I didn't know you, and I mean KNOW you, I wouldn't take a check either, personal or certified, either of which can be nicely copied. UNLESS the check was written on a bank in my town where I can go and cash it and walk out with benjies.

Having said that, there are epic stories where pinheads do crazy stupid shit to get a game, including driving for a few days. If you really want the game, is it that much to ask to drive a mile to your bank and send a wire? I mean, you have to go to the bank anyway to get the certified check, right? So do the wire instead. The money is irretrievably out of your account in either event soon as you mail the check.

Last, to the OP where you wrote about a wire... "this protects me how?" That is exactly the point. It doesn't protect you any mo better than your walking into the bank, getting a bank check and sending it off.

If you call up the credit card company and say it's a fraudulent charge, it will be dealt with as a fraudulent charge.

The credit card company isn't going to start giving you grief about the type of charge, how it was charged, why it was charged, they don't care. If someone is going to try and steal and reverse the charge, they can. The credit card company can't see that it was sent as a gift, they can't see any of that, just that it was a charge. That whole gift thing is a PayPal rule and has nothing to do with the charge itself.

All send as a gift means is that PayPal won't reverse the transaction. But, what do you think they're going to do when they get hit with a debit when the card holder marks the transaction as fraudulent? PayPal is not safe, no matter how you send the money.

Am I reading your statement right?

Show up, inspect the game, everything good, bring your laptop or from your cell if you feel comfortable, connect, transfer, confirm there, deal done, no worried or carrying cash, easy peasy.

You are, yes. When I have filed a fraudulent claim with my credit card company, the first thing they do is start a three-way phone call with the company that made the charge. Usually, it is the merchant, but with PayPal (or eBay for that matter), they call their number directly. The method of making a payment (gift or non-gift) does make a difference. PayPal doesn't protect you on a gift transaction because they are assuming that you know the other person enough to go knock down their door if you have a problem. Remember, the buyer is the one initiating payment, rather than the seller/merchant invoicing the purchase. Credit card companies will not process fraud claims with payment sent this way... call them and ask.

I've disputed a few charges over the years. When I told them the charge was fraudulent, there were no questions asked, then said it would be taken care of.

One time I rented a car that broke down and they were unable to get me a replacement. They still tried to bill me for the rental, came down to 1/2 price because I used it for a few hours which was BS. When I disputed that charge they did ask me if I attempted to settle the dispute with the other party, I said yes, and they submitted my case. A week later it was gone.

I've never heard of a credit card company playing mediator and getting in the middle of disputes like that.

Maybe not in your experience, but there are banks out there that will revoke charges just on the users word. PayPal is not safe.

And definitely a scam if the check is for more than the cost of the game and they want you to give them the game plus the difference in cash.

In my adult life, I have had the "privilege" of submitting fraud claims to American Express, VISA, Mastercard, My local Bank & Paypal.

Every single one of them, with the exception of Paypal, was able to get me money back. Paypal told me that even though it was clear that I was the victim of fraud, I was not going to get my money because the fraudster had emptied his Paypal account and there was nothing left to get from them. Basically, Paypal told me that I was out of luck since they could not get money from the fraudster. That was a valuable $500 lesson for me.

Every single one of them, including paypal, just took my report and worked it out behind the scenes. I was not involved outside of my initial statement.

I'm glad you have had better luck with Paypal, but for me, I do not trust Paypal to protect me as a seller.

Marcus

The difference is Credit Card companies are ready to eat fraud charges. Paypal doesn't, and passes the buck to the customer with a 'sorry, someone else screwed you.. and we aren't going to take the fall for you' attitude.

I've taken personal checks and waited for them to clear. That was understood with the buyer and never had a problem. Per the bank once a personal check clears through them "officially" its a no lose situation and does not take the 5 days that it used to.

Other than that a wire transfer is best. My bank has assured me that it is irrevocable, but there is usally a fee involved for the buyer.

I will not accept any type of cashier's check or MO either until it clears per my bank. So why bother the seller with going to get it etc since the wait time to clear is the same as a personal check and either one can be easily counterfeited?

You must have bad luck then to have so many different fraud things show up for you. I've been dealing with Ebay for 15 years now and never had to submit anything for fraud.

It's hard to tell what is ac-cap-table and what is not ac-cap-table these days
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