How is that any different than with normal sized flippers? I.e., even if the bats are a little longer, if the ball is still going to miss the bat, doesn't that force you to nudge as well? Or are you saying that because it will happen more often on BSD it forces you to nudge more often, thereby giving you more practice at it?

Yea , lightning Flipper's Suck !! I took them off by BSD after owning it 2 Yr's , and it Still Kill's me
and the angle of the L.flip's / reg flip's are No diff--.. It's all in Yr head.

It seems like it's a bit easier to cradle balls on a standard size flipper after doing so on a lightning flip game. I can't say that i'm necessarily better, it might just seem easier now.

I use white rubber and bouncy flipper rubber (not black). It takes time to learn how to catch the ball because that little bit of extra flipper seems to make all the difference when countering ball spin.

Shorter lever = less leverage.

Lightning flippers are part of the BSD myth so I will leave them on no matter how painful!

I left them on my FT as well....

Right, and I would think from a purely objective viewpoint it IS easier with standard flippers vs lightning flippers.

I hate BSD... with a passion. Every time I play one I want to tip it over and set it on fire.

Every time I play one I want to tip it over and set it on fire.

Don't forget to finish it off with the peni...err...STAKE!

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Wouldn't want that pin coming back from the dead on you P_C...

Holy! That's totally a penis.. lol!

"Shorter lever = less leverage."

Not really, the power "into the flipper" is determined by the coil and is equal to power "out of the flipper, minus friction" (assuming that the mechanism efficiency is constant with different bats).

So if the bat is longer it moves slower (with the ball at the end) due to it's less mechanical advantage at the coil compared to the shorter bat.

So ball velocity should be equal.

Robert

One of the best DMD images ever.

When there is no load on the flipper, the tip of the longer one travels at a higher speed as it follows a longer circumference. The ratio of flipper coil strength to ball weight is such that a 1/8" flipper length difference probably has minimal effect on ball launch speed from the flipper tip.

These coils are quite strong and don't seem to have any load/speed degradation, so they travel at the same speed with the longer bat as they do with the short bat. It seems that they are limited by the coil sleeve friction more than the length of the flipper. So a longer flipper will move faster at the tip. You may have a point though, more length will cause more resistance. Remember, we are also only talking about 1/8th of an inch here, so the wider gap SDTM could be a bigger factor.

I put the shorter bats on my machine to reduce ball speed because the strength of the flippers was causing the ball to jump off the rails and it worked.

This thread shows a number of pinsiders that have changed them out for a longer bat because they felt disadvantaged by them. Therefore, it stands to reason that some effect on the gameplay does exist.

Agreed. My BSD had the lightning flippers as well.....hated them. I put standard "blood red" flippers on mine....and it still beats me up! But at least they "look" cooler while doing so BSD originally was stocked with regular flips....ops just started using them lightning do-dads to decrease ball times....booooooo.

nope, that's pretty much it.

Yeah I don't watch those videos anymore, they ruin the gameplay for me

I love BSD, mine has a home for life.

Amen !!!!

I can post pass on my bsd phish..just takes some practice...

Bingo. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. You get a lot of practice this way, and that transfers to every game out there, lightning flips or not.

_{Post edited by MGE : fixed a typo}

Yes, indeed. I can do them on mine as well.

Got ya, makes sense.

Phish,

Please post some pics of your adjustable outlanes. Mine only has one setting and I've never seen one that's any different. I'm thinking someone drilled your playfield.

For reference, there are some good pics on the IPDB (not my game) with plastics in the outlane area removed...and no extra (or slotted) holes to adjust anything. I'd really like to see how yours differs.

Thanks!

Learning how to play with lightning flippers gives a player perspective. When you play with the same size flippers for years and years and years, you have nothing to compare it to. Lightning flippers changes everything you know. They force you to change how you play. After you learn them, you develop a basic strategy for games with them (don't try to control too much) and without (control is more doable).

Learning strategies for all the different games out there is impossible. Way too many. But a regular player should know the difference between a lightning flipper game and a regular game when he steps up to one. How you approach each one is different. Sometimes you run into a non-lighting flipper game with lightning flippers. Surprise!

If you don't shoot the right ramp, you'll never start coffin. d:^)

Yet another cool thing about Drac. You can't just keep shooting the left ramp. After a few loops, the game stops the ball for one thing or another. Just when you get your rhythm going, STOP! This does discourage only going for loop champion, which can be fun at home.

Mine is at 7+ degrees and has 11629 coils. Now that you mention it though, I'll probably try some more.

The only time I like to cradle a ball(s) on Drac is on the left flipper during castle MB. That doesn't happen nearly as often as I'd like.

Left them on both those machines also

My BSD has 15411 Flipper coil's installed . That's what the Manuel say's to use also . My TZ has 15411 also ... What's the Diff- between 11629 and 15411 ?

Blue, yellow and red label WMS coils each have different numbers of windings. Less windings is more powerful.
IFrom what I have read the ranking from strongest to weakest is: FL-11629, FL-15411, and FL-11630.

Some of you guys need to go back to your high school physics class

The length of the bat most certainly changes the force delivered upon the ball. Assuming the coil has the ability to swing the longer moment with no rotational velocity change due to the increase in length of the flipper (almost assuredly it does), the tangential speed at the tip of the 1/8" bat is greater than the speed at the tip of the shorter bat. Greater speed, greater acceleration. Force = mass * acceleration....The mass of an 1/8" bat is greater, the acceleration at the tip is greater, therefore the Force to the ball is greater.

Bottom line, tho, who gives a rat's ass...Play it the way it makes it fun for YOU and don't worry about anyone else

I did own BSD and was thinking about putting in FL11630s instead of the factory FL15411s but then that would have made it easier. I believe they use 11630s in MM due to shots like the right ramp being so high and long.

Regardless of the difficulty of shots on BSD, I really miss games with the adrenaline of the sound and visuals of the jackpots in this game. Deadset this would have to have the best animations and sound for a Jackpot out there. Why dont they do this anymore??

I believe this was the point in contention...

Call outs are so easy to do as well. Have not heard on BSD yet but love jackpot call out on AFM for example.