BSD opto assembly.

I started having problems with BSD mist multiball--whenever I hit the ball off the magnet, and then drained one of the balls, it would act as if both balls had drained. Then it would go crazy and start giving me 2 balls per play, probably because it doesn't know how many balls there are.

Anyways, I did a switch test, and sure enough switch 82 (the long range opto that detects if the ball is on the magnet) is not opening and closing like it should. Tested the receiver using the remote control technique, and then the switch closes. Checked the transmitter using my camera phone, and it is on. Deduced the problem was with the 24 switch opto assembly.

I took out the assembly, didn't immediately notice anything wrong with it. Decided to reflow some suspect looking solder points. Put it back in, and the switch worked! Played one game, same problem with mist multiball. Went back into switch test and its not longer working. Now I'm thinking something is loose. Took the board back out, low and behold I see that there is a component not fully attached to the board. I'm guessing I must of inadvertently closed the connection when I reinstalled it the first time, then it vibrated apart when I played a game.

I've attached a photo of the damaged board. According to the manual, this part is Part Number 5551-10890-00, Inductor 10 μH. It is L1 on the schematic, also attached.

After a bunch of hunting around, it turns out its not as simple as replacing this part. A lot of forums say some inductors do not work. I am completely clueless when it comes to electrical theory--can someone help me find a suitable replacement part? Thanks!

24-Switch_Opto_Assembly.png 2012-05-15_23-35-25_36.jpg

#2 11 years ago

???

Tommi_Gunn

Inactive member

11y 0 1,634

Pg 3-24 on the manual has the schematic. According to the schematic, it's a 10 mH inductor.

I see where you're getting that part number from, Pg 2-17 shows the BOM's (build of materials) list as L1 being a 10 μH.

This is interesting. Either the schematic or BOM is incorrect.

What's on your board now? Can you read the value of L1?

#3 11 years ago

B R

BLACK_ROSE

Pinside member

Lexington, NC

14y 116K 8,818 3 60

Where is that board mounted on the under P/F.. I haven't lOOked under mine yet , I do have a spare tho..

#4 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:
Where is that board mounted on the under P/F.. I haven't lOOked under mine yet , I do have a spare tho..

Here's a video that shows where it is--skip to 1m38s.

#t=1m38s

If you are willing to part with that spare, I'd be most grateful.

#5 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:
Pg 3-24 on the manual has the schematic. According to the schematic, it's a 10 mH inductor.
I see where you're getting that part number from, Pg 2-17 shows the BOM's (build of materials) list as L1 being a 10 μH.
This is interesting. Either the schematic or BOM is incorrect.
What's on your board now? Can you read the value of L1?

Good catch--the plot thickens. Don't have the board on me, but I'll post later today. Do I just read what's on top of the inductor? 24-Opto_Schematic.png

Edit: Added the Schematic that Tommi_Gunn is referring to.

#6 11 years ago

???

Tommi_Gunn

Inactive member

11y 0 1,634

Personally, I would trust the schematic over the BOM. But, I would order both just in case. Their cheap. By the time they arrive, you'll have an answer on which to install.

I'm going with 10mh at this point due to it's size, but that's an educated guess. It's looks like it's part of the tank circuit.

Although, swapping with a know good board is always the quickest and easiest fix.

#7 11 years ago

EDK

ModCity

Pinside member

12y 28,900 71 4

I had this exact – and I mean exact - issue not that long ago and also was having a tough time finding a replacement for the inductor.

Apparently CoinOp Cauldron will repair the board if you send it in (he lists it as a Shadow opto board but he told me it's the same thing). I ended up buying a newly-designed 24-inch opto board from homepin.com in Australia. Installed it and those miscount problems went away.

#8 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:
I'm going with 10mh at this point due to it's size, but that's an educated guess. It's looks like it's part of the tank circuit.

I guess finding a 10mH or 10 μH inductor isn't hard, but I keep hearing that other properties of the inductor are important too (e.g., tolerance?). I just don't know which ones. Found this one on mouser...would this work? http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/RL822-100K-RC/?qs=pMGLqIuQiKL11G5OBopUszEgr9cxsrBKj%2ft2oqZrvy8%3d

#9 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

Quoted from ModCity:
I had this exact – and I mean exact - issue not that long ago and also was having a tough time finding a replacement for the inductor.
Apparently CoinOp Cauldron will repair the board if you send it in (he lists it as a Shadow opto board but he told me it's the same thing). I ended up buying a newly-designed 24-inch opto board from homepin.com in Australia. Installed it and those miscount problems went away.

Yeah, I think I read that thread. You had the same exact syptoms, huh? That new board on homepin looks awesome too--the new status LED is a nice touch. I really want to avoid spending $80 though because of a $.50 part....hmmm tough call.

#10 11 years ago

EDK

ModCity

Pinside member

12y 28,900 71 4

I was already somewhat interested in trying a re-engineered board of some kind anyway, so it ended up working out. The biggest reason I went for it was because of the problem you're having right now - I couldn't find anyone who could give me a sure answer of what I was supposed to be looking for.

I still plan to send the old board off to CoinOp Cauldron at some point, though.

#11 11 years ago

BOB

MrSanRamon

Pinside member

San Ramon, CA

19y 107K 3,483 6

I believe the shadow manual BOM has L1 as 10mH as well as the schematic.

Checked IPDB.

Robert

#12 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

Quoted from MrSanRamon:
I believe The Shadow manual BOM has L1 as 10mH as well as the schematic.
Checked IPDB.
Robert

You know, I'm beginning to wonder if the typo in the BSD BOM is the reason why so many people have had difficulties finding a replacement inductor....

#13 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#24_Inch_Opto_Board_.28A-15646.29

Those inductors vibrate right off the board. Very common.
I had trouble finding the part, but I believe it's supposed to be 10 mH.

The board is also used in SWE1 and NBAFB (although undocumented in the BOM)?

Interesting test technique for the receiver. I hadn't heard of that before.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#14 11 years ago

LOU

Loupie

Inactive member

Monroe, OH

19y 32,150 396 4

Still working on my BSD to clear magnet errors. The game plays fine, but I can't clear the magnet errors. I also replaced the opto board A-15430 with an improved board. This seems to have cleared up most of my problems, but I still have those magnet errors.
Reading another thread to clear magnet errors.
This board was not cheap at $80 and hard to find in stock.
I had to have it because my old board burned a little.

_{Post edited by Loupie : photo}

#15 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Quoted from Loupie:Still working on my BSD to clear magnet errors. The game plays fine, but I can't clear the magnet errors. I also replaced the opto board A-15430 with an improved board. This seems to have cleared up most of my problems, but I still have those magnet errors.
Reading another thread to clear magnet errors.
This board was not cheap at $80 and hard to find in stock.
I had to have it because my old board burned a little.
Post edited by Loupie : photo

Have you tested the optos on the PF?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#16 11 years ago

B R

BLACK_ROSE

Pinside member

Lexington, NC

14y 116K 8,818 3 60

Quoted from Loupie:
Still working on my BSD to clear magnet errors. The game plays fine, but I can't clear the magnet errors.

Press the Start Button during Magnet Test. Error's will reset to -0- ..

#17 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bsd-help-4

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
I had trouble finding the part, but I believe it's supposed to be 10 mH.

So just any old 10mH radial inductor will work? Did you consider things like precision and Quality? I'm thinking of getting one of these...http://www.fastrongroup.com/series/43/findProducts

Do you happen to know the specs on yours?

#18 11 years ago

BOB

MrSanRamon

Pinside member

San Ramon, CA

19y 107K 3,483 6

Quoted from Loupie:
The game plays fine, but I can't clear the magnet errors.

Let me relate what issue I had with my BSD.

i got a continual "magnet upload error" and credit dot. This went on for years.

I couldn't get it to go away, and all the optos worked and so did the game.

Well one day I inadvertently did a factory reset.

No more credit dot.

Robert

#19 11 years ago

BOB

MrSanRamon

Pinside member

San Ramon, CA

19y 107K 3,483 6

Also, see this thread.

Robert

#20 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

OP
Quoted from Spraynard:
ChrisHibler said:I had trouble finding the part, but I believe it's supposed to be 10 mH.
So just any old 10mH radial inductor will work? Did you consider things like precision and Quality? I'm thinking of getting one of these...http://www.fastrongroup.com/series/43/findProducts
Do you happen to know the specs on yours?

Unfortunately, I don't know the specs. I'd find the 10mH part and slap it on there. It's an inductor. It's really there to smooth the power. I don't see how the specs could be that important other than the 10mH. I could be wrong...but let's see.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#21 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fastron/11P-103J-50/?qs=3%2fphUcBLEfYP2myhlJxBuUUG3Wp%252bHNZwB8RgLrLg3l4%3d

Success!Fixed the opto, and mist is working again. For the record, I used a 10 mH inductor, ordered off mouser.com. Cost like $1.00. Sure beats buying a new board! Here's the link for future sufferers of this problem. If the link ever breaks, it was a Fastron 10mH radial inductor, with 5% tolerance. Mouser part number: 434-03-103j manufacturer part number: 11p-103j-50.

Edit: thanks to everyone who helped out to solve this problem!

#22 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member

http://i.imgur.com/KO65Q.jpg

And here's my board with shiny new inductor (in upper left of picture)

#23 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/game-specific/pinball-toys/118-dracula-mist-multiball

OP
Quoted from Spraynard:
Success!Fixed the opto, and mist is working again. For the record, I used a 10 mH inductor, ordered off mouser.com. Cost like $1.00. Sure beats buying a new board! Here's the link for future sufferers of this problem. If the link ever breaks, it was a Fastron 10mH radial inductor, with 5% tolerance. Mouser part number: 434-03-103j manufacturer part number: 11p-103j-50.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fastron/11P-103J-50/?qs=3%2fphUcBLEfYP2myhlJxBuUUG3Wp%252bHNZwB8RgLrLg3l4%3d
Edit: thanks to everyone who helped out to solve this problem!

Nice work, and thanks for posting this!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#24 11 years ago

TAB

terryb

Inactive member

Banning, CA

11y 90,150 4,795 14

Congrats on the fix Spraynard. Sorry I didn't see this post sooner. I've got an article and video on my website that covers Mist Multiball troubleshooting. Hopefully it will help someone else.

#25 11 years ago

PJG

Spraynard

Pinside member