FS: Battery Eliminator RAM (NVRAM) for Data East / Williams System 11

Started 2 years ago by acebathound in forum MarketBuying advice.


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FS: Battery Eliminator RAM (NVRAM) for Data East / Williams System 11


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  • Started 2 years ago by acebathound
  • 7 Pinsiders participating in this thread.
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    2 years, 2 months ago
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    Nonvolatile RAM replacement for Williams System 11B/11C & Data East pinball machines that use the 6064, 6264 or 2064 RAM chip. Eliminates the need for batteries to save your configuration / high scores. You'll no longer have to worry about leaking batteries, checking batteries each year or running the machine every few weeks or months to charge a battery backup capacitor. I can build a fairly large quantity of these with the parts I have on-hand and price will get better if larger quantity is being ordered.

    This NVRAM is a very easy swap-out on Data East Machines. For Williams Machines, the task becomes a bit more difficult. Please read the "More Information" section below for details.

    1 adapter $25.00 shipped
    2-3 adapters $24.00 each shipped
    4-6 adapters $22.50 each shipped
    6+ adapters $21.00 each shipped

    -- MORE INFORMATION --
    On Data East machines, if you look at the board, usually there is silkscreen writing on the board going horizontally with numbers and vertically with letters. The RAM is at position 5-D, right under the game EPROM. From my experience thus far, all Data East MPU boards should have had a socket installed for the RAM from the factory and use either 6064 or 6264 RAM. Always good to double-check there's a socket & that the RAM is 6064, 6264 anyway just to be safe. That means this NVRAM replacement is a very quick replacement on Data East machines. Remove the existing RAM from the socket, remove the batteries, then replace with the NVRAM adapter.

    Williams machines are a different story since they don't appear to have used sockets on their RAM chips (saved them money I guess). Instead the RAM is soldered directly to the board, so unless someone's already replaced faulty RAM & installed a socket, installing NVRAM won't be an easy swap-out. If you have a Williams System 11B or System 11C MPU board the existing RAM will either be 6116 or 6264 at "U25".. and if it's 6116 there are jumper changes you can do to the board to convert to 6264 RAM. From my understanding Williams 11A MPU boards (F-14, Fire!, Pin-bot, Millionaire) use 6116 RAM and can't be configured for the 6264 RAM.. Lindsey makes a 6116 NVRAM adapter you can buy at Pinforge.com if you have one of a System 11A board or don't wish to change jumper settings on your System 11B/C boards. Williams WPC also has RAM soldered directly to the board. What does all this mean? Probably that if your game is working perfectly & you have no reason to pull the boards --AND-- unless you *really* hate the idea of remote battery holders it's probably best to just leave the existing RAM & use remote battery holders than disturb the board.

    Hope this helps answer questions for everyone. Rule of thumb, Data East = easy swap...... Williams = cut out existing RAM, install socket, install NVRAM (except on System 11A which won't work with this 6264 NVRAM adapter).

    If interested, message me or reply to the thread & I will provide payment information (Paypal). Shipping within the United States only at the moment.


    2 years, 2 months ago
    #

    Nice job. I may be interested in the future.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    10 ready to ship =)

    I won't bump this any more but if anyone finds this thread a week, month or year from now, contact me as I'll still probably have some available (bought a decent amount of RAM for future board designs). I've used this in all of my Data East machines, works great and saved me having to solder in a remote battery pack on a few since the existing battery holder had to be cut out due to corrosion on the battery holder springs (didn't make it to the board).


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    Very interested, will contact after next weeks expo. I'm tight on funds now.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    Looks like you're using standard .100" headers. You should switch to machine pin headers if you're going to be selling these. The standard .100" headers will be too big for some sockets and you will get complaints. I know because I've been selling this exact product for a couple years now and went through the same thing. If you've already got the RAMTRON parts you might as well do 6116 and 5101 too.


    2 years, 1 month ago
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    Lindsey said:

    Looks like you're using standard .100" headers. You should switch to machine pin headers if you're going to be selling these. The standard .100" headers will be too big for some sockets and you will get complaints. I know because I've been selling this exact product for a couple years now and went through the same thing. If you've already got the RAMTRON parts you might as well do 6116 and 5101 too.

    Hi Lindsey, I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it but the pictures do make it look like they're standard headers. They are actually machine pins though, so no damage to the sockets will occur. Might have to take another picture that makes that more apparent, thanks for pointing that out =)

    I'm not sure I'll do 6116/5101 adapters. These 6264 adapters were justifiable due to the amount of machines I have that use the memory and parts that I could source. I don't have many older Bally/Stern at the moment and don't plan to keep too many of the early machines long-term. The Williams machines I own don't have the 6116 in a socket. Not saying I won't ever do other types of RAM replacements, but if I did it would be out of need for my own use first and foremost.

    In addition, the adapters aren't the *quickest* thing to put together. I'm sure with technique or an assembly-line approach you can get them down to 20-30 min each to make, but don't see it getting too much quicker than that with the surface mount part. Electrically checking connections prior to assembly, soldering in the components, electrically checking connections after, final testing in a machine. My hats off to people that create and sell a bunch of boards themselves, it's not always quick work to make a few bucks. I'm learning that boards should be created out of necessity, rather than with the intention to make money.. worst case you solved a problem you were having and best case you have some funds to put towards a future project.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    Pinside message sent


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    Like I said, I have been selling this exact product for a couple years and I was the first to market with the 6264 adapters so intentional or not this is a copy of my original product. I was content to leave well enough alone here but if you're going to be selling on KLOV where I do most of my advertising I guess I might as well sell here too.

    I'll beat this pricing by 20% for anyone who mentions this ad. I also have 6116 and 5101 adapters.

    http://PinForge.com


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #
    Lindsey said:

    Like I said, I have been selling this exact product for a couple years and I was the first to market with the 6264 adapters so intentional or not this is a copy of my original product. I was content to leave well enough alone here but if you're going to be selling on KLOV where I do most of my advertising I guess I might as well sell here too.
    I'll beat this pricing by 20% for anyone who mentions this ad. I also have 6116 and 5101 adapters.
    http://PinForge.com

    Thanks Lindsey, this does show your true character. Hurray for hobbyists unless they offer something that functions similarly and you no longer corner the market. For anyone interested on what happened here please see http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=226879

    I do not think I was in the wrong and am sure there are those that will agree & those that will disagree. The good news is, lower prices for all!! For the next 30 days I will beat my own prices by 25%. Shipped within the United States! This is a really good deal on these regardless of who you buy them from since they are normally about $30ea.

    -- Limited-Time pricing for assembled adapters --
    1 adapter $19.00 shipped
    2-3 adapters $18.00 each shipped
    4-6 adapters $17.50 each shipped
    6+ adapters $16.50 each shipped

    *Additionally if you want to build your own, I can sell just the parts (Ramtron, machine header pins, SOIC to DIP board) for $12ea shipped or offer a larger discount for bulk purchases of those. You'll need a quality soldering gun with a very small tip & decent soldering skills since these are surface mount parts.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    Everything I've said is accurate. If it's not then feel free to point out where it's not.

    My true character? So I guess when I came up with the 6116 conversion that you used in your article that was totally for selfish reasons too right? I guess all those other conversions I shared with the community were somehow to make money? That is completely ridiculous. Go ahead and take a look at the hundreds of hours I've selflessly spent helping people on KLOV and elsewhere. Go ahead and look at my site for what are actually original ideas for PCB conversions, etc... Do you think I do that stuff and post it online for everyone to use out of selfish reasons? Give me a break. I understand that you're trying to cut me down and diminish my credibility but calling my character into question is totally uncalled for because who I am as a person and how it relates to this "hobby" has been well established for over 10 years now. I don't need a pat on the back but don't diminish my contributions because you've used them yourself.

    If anything the one showing their character here is you. You knew that I was already selling this product but made no effort whatsoever to get in touch with me to tell me you were planning to sell them out of common courtesy and then I'm supposed to email you first before commenting that I already had these and I'll just adjust my pricing? There's a colloquialism we use to describe that in North America. It's called a double standard.

    I don't feel like sitting on my inventory for the rest of my life so I'll continue to beat this pricing until they're gone. I have bigger fish to fry anyway. All I did was point out that I already had these, I was the first to market and I would adjust my pricing. You're the one getting all upset about it. That in itself is pretty telling. You're upset about my using the word copy but this exact product already existed before you created this version and you knew it. To me the word "copy" applies there. Call it a copy, call it whatever the hell you want. It's all semantics. Like I said, it's not a revolutionary or even original idea BUT this product is a copy of my product. How else should I describe it?

    Anyway... I'm not going to go back and forth here forever. If you want to sell these then great for you. I can't stop you and wouldn't even if I could. You have as much right to sell these as I do.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #
    Lindsey said:

    You're upset about my using the word copy but this exact product already existed before you created this version and you knew it.

    Yes this product already existed as Ramtron's DIP version of the same exact IC which was never mass-produced. If it's wrong to take common off-the-shelf components (a common 28-pin SOIC to 28-pin DIP converter) to make a surface mount part into a DIP part and assemble them then I guess I did something wrong. I didn't create any schematics or a custom board. There was nothing to figure out with mapping pins. Ramtron's product is in and of itself an exact replacement for a 6264 RAM IC. There's discusson on RGP dating from at least 2010 if not earlier about the DIP/SOIC versions of the chip. I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking a surface mount part, putting it on an off-the-shelf adapter board available from eBay.. assembling & selling it and asking for a few bucks in return for assembly time. I copied nothing at all, it's Ramtron's own pinout that makes it compatible with the 6264, 6064 & 2064 RAM.

    I was hasty in saying something about your character and I do apologize for that, but I felt like you were attacking my character by saying I stole your design. I know you support the arcade/pinball communities and I respect anyone who shares knowledge instead of keeping it to themselves. I just don't personally think I was out of line for offering this for sale, or there are MANY other people who are in the same boat as soon as they solder an SOIC part to a standard SOIC-to-DIP adapter..or anyone that creates adapter boards for common pinouts that people have posted online for years (ie. 2732 to 2532 adapters, etc). Think what you will, hate that I put something out there at a lower price and you don't have the market cornered on this particular adapter, or whatever else caused the initial backlash.. but I'll still respect you for your contributions on the whole and at the end of the day it just benefits the pinball and arcade community by helping them to get rid of batteries in their machines at an insanely good price and I don't think anyone's going to complain about that.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    You guys need to stop the back and forth on here. It makes you BOTH look bad. Take it private, not here. I was thinking about putting them in my pins but after the past couple posts, I will just keep swapping the batteries. Maybe the mods will lock it to stop the bickering.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #
    absocountry2 said:

    You guys need to stop the back and forth on here. It makes you BOTH look bad. Take it private, not here. I was thinking about putting them in my pins but after the past couple posts, I will just keep swapping the batteries. Maybe the mods will lock it to stop the bickering.

    I'm done. I think Lindsey's done. Thanks for the feedback though and sorry if it affects your decision.


    2 years, 1 month ago
    #

    Yeah... I'm done here too.


    1 year, 8 months ago
    #

    Will these work with Stern games? Whitestar or SAM?


    1 year, 8 months ago
    #

    Hi Crash,

    From what I've gathered the Sega/Stern Whitestar RAM should be either 6264 or the larger 62256 RAM at location U212 directly under the battery holder. Earlier "Whitestar" boards may use 6116 RAM, so you'll want to verify your existing RAM is 6264 or 62256 RAM. There should be a jumper below the RAM chip labeled "JP1" that will allow you to switch between a 62256 RAM (32k jumper setting) and 6264 RAM (8k jumper setting). I do not have a Whitestar MPU to try this NVRAM in, in theory it should replace any 6264 RAM since it's the same pinout. Also from pictures I've seen of the Whitestar board it looks like the RAM may be socketed, but again I don't have a board to reference. You'd want to verify the existing RAM is in a socket & that your board is either already using 6264 RAM or has the jumper to allow you to switch to the 8k setting.

    Hope that helps!



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