Ok.

I had a bad SSD and issues with my trough opto boards. Although furstrated with the problems, JJP techs helped troubleshoot the issue and sent out replacement parts, no fuss no muss (and they didnt ask where or who i bought the machine from btw)

Find ONE person that was able to purchase a single light board or light boardset to keep on hand as a spare vs. having to rely on the warranty process. Also, I would be interested in knowing what the prices are for said items. I know I like to keep spare parts and electrical components on hand for high failure items so that I'm not left with a dead game while I'm waiting for parts to be exchanged. If I buy a game from Bene or from another party without a warranty I would want to be sure that I could at least purchase parts for my game to keep it running. I know Jack has taken care of his warrantied customer's very well up to this point, but I think a lot of questions still need to be answered as far as what happens when these games are no longer supported.

Also, does anyone know if the light boards problems are easily repairable using standard surface mount equipment? I'm of the mindset that I really like being able to repair all of my pinball boards myself if possible, and if that means buying a surface mount workstation and learning how to do surface mount repair than that's something that I can definitely look into since surface mount seems to be the direction this hobby is heading.

You make some valid points. IMHO, i think JJP is not selling "extra" boards because they are probably trying to keep stock on hand to replace the broken ones and perhaps for the new games rolling off the line. (doesnt mean i think thats good). But I agree with you, i'd like to be able to repair my own boards if a problem happens down the line. I mean, i doubt we are talking about a completely fried board, or all the traces blew up on it or something, some component must be failing, give me the digikey PN and i'll solder a new one on myself, lol. I know there are schematics in the manual, I'll have to look at some point, heck, that info might already be there, heh. Tho luckily, i've had no issues with my light boards, but I am on a newer build with the updated ones.

I think things will settle down once all the LE's are out and they start churning out the 75th edition. I went in on this fully knowing it was a brand new platform with brand new parts.

Ok, but that wasn't the question I was asking about. Do you think there will EVER be a time when you won't be able to get parts to replace broken ones? Maybe so, but as of now, I don't know anyone that has a "paperweight" machine no matter WHO they got it from. Not looking to argue, but I'd just call Jack myself.

My assumption is that a few people wanted to buy a backup set of boards, not that theirs had gone out and they weren't allowed to get replacements. My own experience and that of others I know is quite the opposite of what is conveyed by these threads. I have found JJP to be not only responsible but downright generous in offering support. (I would offer concrete examples, but I think they would have the unintended effect of holding JJP to a ridiculously high future standard.) I am not the least bit worried about getting any required help for my WOZ, nor am I concerned about buying The Hobbit. Obviously, I have only a limited frame of reference (I can speak only for myself and those I know), but I think it is important to offer a different perspective.

I think it's far too early to say... We've been fortunate in this hobby to have people step up and come up with new solutions when encountering problems like this in the past. For example I know that some of the chips on alphanumeric displays are very expensive and nearly impossible to find-by but companies like Pinscore and PinLED came up with an alternate solution to work around it by developing a new display boards using new technology. Same goes for Pinball 2000 and Nucore. My gut tells me that the same would probably be true if JJP ceases to exist 5 or 10 years down the road but it's too early to say.

It would be really nice if JJP would come out with a more clear statement on what their support includes. For example, If I buy a used game without a warranty or a new game from an unlicensed distributor will they still cover the light boards since that seems to be more of a design flaw than standard warranty issue? Or if I do have a 1 year warranty and it expires, how long after my warranty expires will they continue to support the light boards? I think a simple blanket statement such as "We will replace defective light boards free of charge for all games regardless of warranty status for two years after manufacture date" would go a long ways in easing people's concerns down the line.

I see what you're saying. If I speak to Jack, I will try to get some hard answers.

Jack must be an apple fan.

Hmm wonder if anyone is planning on keeping their woz nib for 15 years to resell??? Heck we still see STTNG nib from time to time...

What a shame this is. I saw Jacks post where he jumped in Benepins for sale thread and hijacked it. Definitely was the not the right thing to do

Not being able to buy parts before they fail is not exclusive to JJP. I inquired about buying a set of ramps for my XMENLE, and was told I could not buy any at this time, unless my current ramps are broken.

I understand why, and I can not blame either company for the decision.

All ... we are working with JJP now to get spare parts available, so this is in process ... stay tuned.

That's great to hear. JJP has fantastic customer service. Great news on the spare parts front too from PPS.

Yea. You should. Ordering parts to stock and calling support because your machine is down are separate issues. You file a trouble ticket, and if there's no warranty then you pay for the new boards rather than get them free. Also, regular trouble tickets don't require a receipt or proof where it was purchased so they'd never know who you bought from. They only asked for my distributor when I got on queue for an entire power supply and board set swap.

There seem to be a lot of people at the kennel without a dog in the hunt. JJP has been very attentive to problems, at least from what I hear from actual owners. Why people hate this game - have no interest in owning one - yet want to hang out in the WOZ portion of pinside is beyond me.

jealousy, the desire to say "told you so", immaturity, seeing someone elses failure may make them feel superior (even though they've taken no initiative to do something themselves), armchair quarterbacks, I could go on.

Haters gonna hate.

Ok, can we make a new rule? You are not allowed to talk about any pinball game unless you own it. One more rule that certain people seem to hold dear, you can't say anything bad about any game for any reason otherwise you're a HATER! Oh! One more. No hating on JJP no matter what they do. Please feel free to hate on Stern though as that's good sport.

Did that cover it for ya

Told you so .....

Good to hear....

This point is always brought up as a rebuttal. It is sometimes true and sometimes not. There is a big difference between stating an opinion and being a general A....Ho*^# over and over.

I'm not saying that is you.

Both companies get their share of A...Ho&@$.

I'm a firm believer of constructive criticism - preferable based on previous knowledge and or maturity. Everyone's got their opinion. It'd be boring world if everyone's was the same, but frame it objectively and constructively is the best way to go IMO

And Ya - it can be done.

I understand and agree. Hating a game for the sake of being an a%^hole is something no one wants. But both Stern and JJP do make bonehead moves and discussing those moves in the context of a fan site for pinball is reasonable and to be expected. A majority of it is not hate. A majority is a reasonable negative reaction to things that are poor form. I think everyone is too quick to brand anyone who says anything remotely negative as a hater.

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Full disclosure - I've owned 4 stern titles in the past, but maybe I do hate Stern right now - so what. I have a life and better things to do than troll around the stern threads.

Check my posts - I analyze JJP, PPS, Stern equally. I'm not blind hater or lover of any and I enjoy discussing what they're doing. I just like it when its not as personal. Opinion, debate and discussion are all good. Done well by the forum group would probably help the guys building the games more than having blind adoration or blind hate thrown at them. Not accusing you of any of this by the way. Call it what you want but there is a little too much blind adoration/hate, vendetta's. Makes for entertaining reading, but not sure it gets anywhere. Anyway - off to play WOZ 2.0

Until JJP offers spare parts, large route ops will not operat WoZ pins. Regardless of any warranty, a route op will keep spare boards, power spplies, all unique mechs that the ball strikes so when something breaks on a Friday night, the service tech can have it back making money Saturday morning.

As soon as each new pin came out, the Op I worked for ordered a spare MPU for every model of pin we had, Power supply and sound boards as well. We also had a few spare lamp & Driver boards for the Bally/Stern, Williams and <choke> Gottlieb system one pins.

The operators I know in Denver all have WOZ on location........ Not saying there's many ops left though

Maybe they were able to buy spare parts.

I'm not sure I understand the controversy in the first place. For a little context:

I bought a Star Trek NIB from Bene - that is to say, the nice folks at Bene referred me to a local distributor. That distributor does a lot of business with Bene, and was willing to give me a deal as a result. So I'm fully covered, and really happy with both parties.

I grant that it's possible that sometimes Bene is selling machines they bought originally for their own use... But I've never heard them refer to themselves as a distributor, and I've never seen them order a ton of machines to flip.

My purchase price was below retail, which is not generally the behavior of a "flipper"...