Bummer

Wait, I thought this was already known? For any manufacturer, Stern included? PPS MM remake too. Warranty doesn't transfer. Any service you get is because they want to, not because they have to.

Where did he announce this? Nothing in the jjp forum

In this guy's current for-sale thread.

I could be wrong, but I think this is standard policy for most manufacturers, and meant mainly to help protect their authorized distributors, vs people flipping them. There was a long thread on this before, and the jist of it was if you bought 1 WOZ and decided to sell it to someone, even though the warranty says it wouldn't be covered, JJP would support the game. However, if you bought multiple and are not a authorized distributor, then the warranty would fall on you. Pretty much the way it works on most things I think.

And that's the reason Jack spoke up in that thread, as you said:

....so if someone buys one of these NIB games from an original buyer, and opens it just to find out that their WOZ has one of the common issues known to exist so far with this title, then that game is not going to be covered under the original warranty?

Hmmm.....I could have sworn that Alex declared otherwise here, on behalf of and as representative of JJP.

Geesh, I would say that this would kill the secondary market for WOZ. Who wants to buy a game NIB or even one that is currently operating normally with earlier LED boards, only to gamble that the issues with the LEDs pops up in a week or so?

Yeah, Stern doesn't do warranty transfer either, but they also don't have notoriously fail-prone lighting hardware.

Forget secondary, it hurts the first buyer too. Who wants to buy a game that has a dicey resale market?

BMW had a problem with their N54 twin turbo engine. One part was prone to failure. So they extended the warranty on it to 10 years. That's how you reassure customers that they're safe to buy your product. It's fixed on the N55 twin scroll version, but if you buy a used N54 you know that one issue isn't gonna leave you hanging. That's how you do it.

Jack should cover the light boards regardless, extend that warranty, reassure the customer. Because JJP messed up and built something that breaks enough of a percentage of the time to be an issue. Make it official.

Well that's one way to drive buyers back to buying new vs used but what a turn off. Especially with some big issues floating around.
Looks like 5k by Xmas : o

Stern has had their fair share of issues. I remember the MET magnet board issue causing them some headaches. It's also important to note that Sterns warranty is only 6 months while JJP is one year. If you buy a JJP pin from an authorized distributor some will even offer a 3 year warranty for $50.

As for WOZ only certain games are having the lighting issue which is with the 5 volt boards. Games with 7 volt boards have been rock solid. It's important to also note that not all 5 volt owners have been having lighting issues and that JJP is working on a permanent fix for anyone having the issue

At least in Australia we're covered by consumer law, doesn't matter if you're not the first owner.

Buy from authorized dealers and avoid people that "act" as a dealers.

DOC

shlockdoc
Pinball master
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3 MINUTES AGO | # QUOTE | !! | IGNORE
Buy from authorized dealers and avoid people that "act" as a dealers.

And don't buy used ....

I'm curious about the stuff Alex said too. He was adamant that even the warranty was written as non transferable, that Jack would honor it.

Let me be sure I understand this. YOU are pretending to be a distributor. YOU are looking for all the benifits of being said distributor. And yet YOU are not willing to take on the responsibility of being a distributor? OMG, you sound like a teenager pretending to be an adult. I wouldn't buy any machine from someone like that.

Disclaimer: I have been known as a JJP supporter. But I don't always agree with everything they say. I like to think I'm pretty practical about it. But in this case it seems like you are posting this to continue to game the system, and putting your customers in the middle of it. You have known this for quite a while, and yet you continue to do it. The correct course would be for you to stop hosing your customers and support them like any "distributor" or fake distributor should. There ya go.

They will. I could sell my single game I bought, and Jack would cover it. But if I bought 5 and was pretending to be a distributor, he wouldn't. Sounds pretty clear to me.

+10000000000000

Buyer beware. There are great real distributors out there. Please avoid the Benepinballs of the world.

Much ado about nothing again.

First of all, Jack is going to support "known problems" that are persistent and part of this launch.

If anybody has a problem there is something called "Implied Warranty of Fitness for a Particular Purpose", regardless of whether or not a warranty has been expressed orally or in writing, the goods must "reasonably conform to an ORDINARY buyer's expectations"………..

Unless he expressly disclaims any warranty, "as is" "where is" and "with all faults", and no way does that statement exist.

Either buy from an "authorized distributor" or from an original buyer and either make sure he agrees to submit claims for the 1 year or use option 2 above. Simple as that.

I think it varies from state to state the level of consumer protection in the US.

I think the difference is that parts can be bought for the Stern games not covered and prices can be researched for those parts. The big problem with buying a JJP game from a non-authorized dealer is that you cannot buy game specific parts and you have no idea how much the replacement parts will be. How much will the light boards cost? If a board goes out are you totally screwed if they won't sell you another? The part out value of these could go through the roof.

If that's the distinction, then that's great to hear, but would be nicer coming from Jack.

Not only has stern honored warranties for 2nd hand games, but they've sent me parts on them after the warranty has expired. YMMV of course, but no, it's not standard for games that switch hands in the warranty period to not be covered.

I guess the only good news I can add to this is the led board reset issue is fixed and the game reset issue is fixed. So if u buy a early factory game second hand it's not like u will always have issues that can't be fixed

Good to know (picked up the RS light kit yesterday btw )

You should be ashamed of yourself. You just started a new thread, not to inform, but to start a flame war. As people are saying, this is the policy across the board. So what's the news here? Jack stated what the industry policy is and that's news? Maybe you have an issue with the industry policy, but that's not your goal here, is it. So again, nothing new to see or say here, just another thread where those who want to bitch can bitch. This policy will never change as it's designed to protect the STERN/JJP's relationship with their distributors, prevent flipping, prevent people from selling their spots, etc...All things that are way more important than the machine getting serviced, as if it's some new born baby that will die...come on guys, smarten up.

This is the thread you should read and then tell me if you are not confused .

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/selling-huo-wizard-of-oz-le-pinball-machine-7000

You're obviously new here and it shows... not only from this post but your many others. You really should sit back and 'absorb' a little first. You'll probably not only save some cash but make better informed comments.

Not always on newer releases.
I am amazed though that Stern will send free parts to second and third owners but it is kind of hit and miss.
On the Hulk mech some people get one part others get the whole mech and others get no response at all to their emails.
I really don't care if the warranty is transferable I want the ability to go to a parts supplier and buy the parts.
I passed on a pre owned WoZ with lighting problems just because there are no parts available for the game.
I had a part break on a ELVIS I sold to a guy the welds on the left ramp and I told the guy I would get the part and do the repair as soon as it came in.
I contacted the dist. I bought it from and he wanted a picture for a part Stern knew was prone to breaking.
Thankfully the part was available from a parts supplier and I was able to buy one to fix the game.
I didn't feel like driving an hour and a half to show up at the guys door with a camera instead of the part.
When WoZ was announced I remembered the "send me a pic and I will see what I can do" statement and didn't get in on it.
When a game goes down I want the part and I don't want to do a photo shoot to get it.

Just a bloody bad descision on JJP's part. Once again Jack becomes personal with another behind the scenes "beef". As a company figurehead, he can't allow himself to get personal. Poor form. Also, for the love of god, get one unified voice with one consistent message coming out from JJP. You can't have employees (paid or not) commenting on warranty policy then make a post that contradicts it by 180 degrees a month or so later.

To all the, "how's it different than Stern" folks. Verbatum, it is not. Real life it's different because sterns are built on a proven platform with (like or leave it) consistent build quality. JJP is a new company, new operating system, new assembly line, etc. People have no idea what bug may be lurking in the os. For that reason, people need comfort until the new systems and company prove reliable. They need to be out pacing the competition to gain trust for a new company. To be honest, I would be embarrassed to make the proclamation Jack did when he knows how poorly the led design was. Again, just bad form all the way around. Until these WOZ start hitting way better reliability numbers, its shameful to suggest anything other than, at a minimum, covering the known woz deficiencies.

Oh, so now reiterating an already existing official policy (like every other manufacturer in the world has) is an "announcement." Oh, brother.

Has anyone ever had problems with a Stern warranty on a game they didn't buy? Hell, I called up and was given help on a Simpsons Pinball Party that was bought and sold how many times over the last 10 years. I was given new AC/DC light boards for free over a year after I bought the game.

I've never registered a Stern pinball, and I've never been refused help or asked who I am. For AC/DC I was asked for my serial number but they sent the part 1.5 years later anyway.

Jack has stated in the past that the light boards have 'extended' warranty that goes beyond the first year. I'm not sure if he ever publicly committed to the length of time, but he recognizes that it's a problem and is taking steps to reassure buyers.

He may be extending it by a year but that doesn't help any secondary buyers per Jacks latest post.

I'm not quite sure if you're keeping up here.

Cliff notes: Pinsider Alex Levy who works for JJP, vehemently asserted all woz games will be covered under warranty regardless of whether it was secondary purchase or not here in an older thread that led to his banning. In fact he posted a text message to and from Jack affirming that JJP will honor the warranty regardless of the official company warranty. Now jack states otherwise.

Actually, I sold my avenger hulk LE to someone and Stern replaced the hulk figure (chewed arm from the ramp) with no problems. My experience with stern is that any faulty device, system, etc is replaced once per serial number of the machine. So it wouldn't matter original owner or not.

I have also dealt with second owner Sterns and had nothing but awesome customer support and assistance from Stern.

In the amusement industry, it has always been "fix it yourself" if you want a new machine to work when there's a problem. I've uncrated many new pinball machines over the years and there's always been several not working out of the box. I ended up fixing them myself so we could get them put on the route. Then I'd fill out the warranty card and in the comments box tell the manufacturer what was wrong and what I did to fix it.

All the cats in the other thread was enough for me to only go NIB.

I think all pinball machines....YES all shoud have a 1 year warrenty from the seller!! That AFM and funhouse you just bought from pinballmasterbaiter.... they should have a 1 year warrenty!!!

I would handle it the way Ken does! After you send them the issue im sure they would send the parts you needed to fix it. As long as it was less then a year old.

That seems to be a common story, and good for Stern. But on paper at least the warranty isn't transferable.

So the question is with JJP, it's not tranferable on paper, but what are the actual experiences, like with Stern? Too early to say? Okay? Bad? Alex said one thing, maybe because it was true or maybe he shouldn't have said it. This stuff with Jack sounds more like stupid distributor beef. Making it into a public spectacle wasn't a brilliant tactical move in my opinion.

Yeah, I do my own board work so I've never used their warranty service. They did however help me with a Monopoly I bought off route =)

I'm fully aware of the context. Announcements are official proclamations, is all I'm sayin'. Someone says one thing in one thread, someone says different in another later, doesn't make the second thing an "announcement." Misleading thread title.

That really worked for the Bumper buyers...

I was a secondary WOZLE buyer. Two light boards went out while I owned the pin. I filled out a service request on JJP. Alex helped me diagnose the problem and had the replacement boards sent to me. I explained on the ticket that I was the 2nd owner. I had no problems at all. This was a few months ago though, so maybe things have changed.

By posting this info, you just created another argumentative thread for what exactly? Aren't you trying to sell a "SECONDHAND" WOZ pinball machine? Doesn't bashing a new company who's pinball machines you sell ultimately hurt your secondary sales? You previously posted that you will most likely get in other JJP pins and will be selling them as well right? Wouldn't this post be COUNTER productive to your goal of selling second hand JJP pinball machines? I must be missing something....

^^^ Some people just enjoy shooting themselves in the foot.

I guess so, didn't make much sense to me.

Yea, I think the moral of this thread is "buy your JJP games from anyone except Benepinballs." He's not a distributor, he's never going to be a distributor, and with all the other proper channels to get games, why bother with him?

That's EXACTLY what I got from this thread! You said it perfectly

Is there anyone here that has had a bad time buying from Bene?